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Legends and Informs

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Post by dBunnyz Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:52 am

I'm not against using them, but from what I understood this was supposed to be a realistic tourney so should we allow people to use anything but gold cards. In reality lets be honest informs are not a true depiction of what stats a player deserves but I would assume that having a standard of only gold cards would be better then allowing anyone to use any version of the player, because lets be honest just because a player is good one game of the season and receives and inform doesnt mean his stats truly jumped 10 points. My point being, if we aren't willing to bend on allowing higher budgets for smaller teams to try to bid for better players then I see it as being hypocrites to allow people to use informs let alone legends.

If I am the only one with any thought on this then thats fine, but just throwing it out there.

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Post by hoban95 Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:38 am

So you think IF's should be banned from the tournament?

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Post by dBunnyz Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:42 am

No. Legends definitely should as these players do NOT play anymore therefor we shouldn't be allowed to play with them. But I think IF's shouldn't be included with an exception of playing players with position changes. UPs are coming out soon and if a player really deserved a boost to his "true" stats then we should be able to use his UP card but Legends and IF's are a sort of "cheat" or "shortcut" because players receive IFs for 1 week performances not for a whole season performance, so why should we use them in our "realistic" tourney.

My point is if were really trying to go realistic and fair (i.e budgets and bids) then this is really the only logical way to go.


Last edited by dBunnyz on Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by dBunnyz Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:07 am

dont get me wrong I thought we were going to play with the basic out of the box players no IF's or Legends to make it fair across the board on players, but if thats not the case you can count me out of this tourney not worth spending the time to focus on building custom tactics if the playing field isnt atleast "gold standard level". Ill play in the next one but i'd rather sit this one out.

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Post by hoban95 Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:44 pm

So you won't be playing because of people using IF's and possibly Legends?

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Post by Shaqavelli Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:57 pm

But in the next one IF's will still be included so you'll have to sit that one out too...

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Post by dBunnyz Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:57 pm

im willing to bend on IFs but then u guys should be willing to bend on budget for smaller league teams. If legends are included in both then im out for both ( I played against crespo and all he would do was pass crespo the ball and strength is way through anyone or cross it to him hows this fair against regular gold players). It just makes no sense to put all this work into a tourney only to face a legend or even an IF of a player that played well on a slow week and there was really noone else to give the IF too, or players that really dont deserve them getting them. Gold standard is how I thought we were going into this to be honest. But if were really not keeping a level playing field for everyone then I'll just have to pass, this isnt what I thought it was going to be.  pale 

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Post by Kiwi Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:13 pm

We tried to be as realistic as possible with the budgets. However, we still ended up amending some calculation to give certain teams higher budgets. Is this a perfect science - absolutely not. But, it's some way to make things a little more relevant.

Every tournament that I've been involved with in the past has never placed a restriction like the one you are suggesting. It would go against the core of UT, given there are 'more realistic' ratings if you play seasons in 'standard FIFA'. We might as well edit some teams there and play through that mode.

I don't help / play in these tournaments to try compete with the purchasing power of other players. It's about getting some decent games in (yes, tougher with the distance we got to cover) with a team that I can afford without clearing out the club of players I'd like to keep.

So, I don't have the UT coins for the likes of the more expensive legends (or Messi given I chose Barca) but I will say that by some unbelievable luck I scraped 3 wins out of 4 with a Porto team that cost all of 6500 coins. Now that I'm playing with a team that has the expensive players already in our club, I'd probably end up losing most Smile.

So, you can choose to play on and drop the threat as we don't want to lose players. However, if you feel that strongly about it, then let us know immediately so we can make other plans.

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Post by dBunnyz Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:20 pm

Lol im sorry but going against the core of UT is this tourney. If you really wanted to create a UT tourney you would auction off players to the higher bids with players being able to bid on any player making it more of a UT experience tourney.  You guys are the ones that wanted to choose real teams and keep their real rosters, im not the one that implemented this flawed system I'm merely trying to help you improve it.

As I understood and read you guys proclamed that this was a supposed to be a realistic tourney so I treated it as such, I could of bought 2-3 legends and stuck them on my team but lets be honest, they dont PLAY anymore.

Playing with legends is unfair no matter the way you look at it. I was merely trying to help improve your tourney by making it accessible and fair and open to MORE people that were willing to joining, but allowing things that merely only help to unbalance instead of enhancing it is counter productive.


Last edited by dBunnyz on Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:24 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by dBunnyz Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:22 pm

The fact that you're not willing to listen to reason, in regards to what I was told was a "realistic team tourney" then I'm going to have to be out. I like what you guys are doing and I want to be apart of this but the playing field is to unleveled for everyone with issues that can be easily avoided.  Rolling Eyes 

P.s- Grats with porto im a portista

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Post by Kiwi Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:26 pm

I can understand re: the budgets that some would say it makes sense to have smaller teams having more.

The challenge is choosing a team that has valuable players - not necessarily in RL or UT. David Luiz is 10k in UT but worth 15-30M in a tourney like this (and probably similar in RL too). Messi is worth hundreds of millions in RL, 1.3M in UT and about ... 10 quid for me having Barca. Same as Ronaldo.

As much as we'd like to make it as realistic as possible, there's no perfect formula for this given that we have a number of aspects that can affect this.

Even if we gave some teams a virtual billion dollar budget and they offer me all of that, there's no way I'd sell Neymer, Iniesta, etc - all because I have these players in UT. Some would say that's unfair of me coz I'm refusing so much coins for a player. Again, I only chose Barca this time round because I had the players - someone will get that opportunity next time.

The other thing is around the play style using a legend as you've mentioned. They could try do the same with Lukaku / Benteke so we should not confuse discounting legends all because someone wants to abuse them.

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Post by frenzied ferbie Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:30 pm

dBunnyz wrote:im willing to bend on IFs but then u guys should be willing to bend on budget for smaller league teams. If legends are included in both then im out for both ( I played against crespo and all he would do was pass crespo the ball and strength is way through anyone or cross it to him hows this fair against regular gold players). It just makes no sense to put all this work into a tourney only to face a legend or even an IF of a player that played well on a slow week and there was really noone else to give the IF too, or players that really dont deserve them getting them. Gold standard is how I thought we were going into this to be honest. But if were really not keeping a level playing field for everyone then I'll just have to pass, this isnt what I thought it was going to be.  pale 
Crespo didn't even score and you rage quit after 10 minutes, it seems like you're just clutching at straws.

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Post by Kiwi Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:34 pm

I hear what you're saying about the auctioning of players. Tried that once - all people on a Skype chat & will never partake of that again! It was chaos, went on for hours & pretty much pulled out after that.

We use the base of UT to start with and negotiate from there. It's probably a lot easier doing it this way, that starting from seasons, editing teams, etc.

I do hear you re: Legends given they do not play & therefore how can they be added to a 'realistic tourney'. Will chat to the rest & get back to you on that. It's something that's never really crossed my mind given that I can't afford 'em Very Happy.

In terms of your comment to 'not listening' - please explain what I am not 'hearing'.

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Post by Kiwi Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:37 pm

frenzied ferbie wrote:
dBunnyz wrote:im willing to bend on IFs but then u guys should be willing to bend on budget for smaller league teams. If legends are included in both then im out for both ( I played against crespo and all he would do was pass crespo the ball and strength is way through anyone or cross it to him hows this fair against regular gold players). It just makes no sense to put all this work into a tourney only to face a legend or even an IF of a player that played well on a slow week and there was really noone else to give the IF too, or players that really dont deserve them getting them. Gold standard is how I thought we were going into this to be honest. But if were really not keeping a level playing field for everyone then I'll just have to pass, this isnt what I thought it was going to be.  pale 
Crespo didn't even score and you rage quit after 10 minutes, it seems like you're just clutching at straws.

Before this gets into a heated argument, please provide facts - both of you. If one is saying 'all he would do was pass crespo the ball' ... show us a video.

If another is saying 'rage quit after 10 minutes' again ... provide evidence through a pic of the game stats.

If you cannot do this, then it's all hearsay ... go and argue on the EA forum all you want.

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Post by frenzied ferbie Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:44 pm

Kiwi wrote:
frenzied ferbie wrote:
dBunnyz wrote:im willing to bend on IFs but then u guys should be willing to bend on budget for smaller league teams. If legends are included in both then im out for both ( I played against crespo and all he would do was pass crespo the ball and strength is way through anyone or cross it to him hows this fair against regular gold players). It just makes no sense to put all this work into a tourney only to face a legend or even an IF of a player that played well on a slow week and there was really noone else to give the IF too, or players that really dont deserve them getting them. Gold standard is how I thought we were going into this to be honest. But if were really not keeping a level playing field for everyone then I'll just have to pass, this isnt what I thought it was going to be.  pale 
Crespo didn't even score and you rage quit after 10 minutes, it seems like you're just clutching at straws.

Before this gets into a heated argument, please provide facts - both of you. If one is saying 'all he would do was pass crespo the ball' ... show us a video.

If another is saying 'rage quit after 10 minutes' again ... provide evidence through a pic of the game stats.

If you cannot do this, then it's all hearsay ... go and argue on the EA forum all you want.
I wasn't the guy he played but I was in the party with person he played, the game lasted about 2 minutes IRL, dbunnyz had a little rant and left, I want no argument but, this guy appears to be exaggerating slightly.

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Post by Kiwi Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:51 pm

Thanks for clarifying that mate. Don't want to move away from the discussion though.

That is another matter altogether. Cheers.

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Post by robthealchy Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:04 pm

frenzied ferbie wrote:
Kiwi wrote:
frenzied ferbie wrote:
dBunnyz wrote:im willing to bend on IFs but then u guys should be willing to bend on budget for smaller league teams. If legends are included in both then im out for both ( I played against crespo and all he would do was pass crespo the ball and strength is way through anyone or cross it to him hows this fair against regular gold players). It just makes no sense to put all this work into a tourney only to face a legend or even an IF of a player that played well on a slow week and there was really noone else to give the IF too, or players that really dont deserve them getting them. Gold standard is how I thought we were going into this to be honest. But if were really not keeping a level playing field for everyone then I'll just have to pass, this isnt what I thought it was going to be.  pale 
Crespo didn't even score and you rage quit after 10 minutes, it seems like you're just clutching at straws.

Before this gets into a heated argument, please provide facts - both of you. If one is saying 'all he would do was pass crespo the ball' ... show us a video.

If another is saying 'rage quit after 10 minutes' again ... provide evidence through a pic of the game stats.

If you cannot do this, then it's all hearsay ... go and argue on the EA forum all you want.
I wasn't the guy he played but I was in the party with person he played, the game lasted about 2 minutes IRL, dbunnyz had a little rant and left, I want no argument but, this guy appears to be exaggerating slightly.
Unfortunately it seems that the fact i have a "legend" seems to have caused some problem. i cant see how as when the transfers system was explained, it used Sheringham as an example. So people from the start knew the situation.
As for the game last night.... it lasted literally 10 game minutes and i scored 2 pretty scrappy goals, one from a corner deflected into my guy for a diving header and the 2nd was a cut inside left of the box and the shot deflected in off a defender past the keeper. Both goals i might add were from IF Milito.... Not Crespo, i think i had one shot with him which led to the corner.

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Post by dBunnyz Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:17 pm

robthealchy wrote:
frenzied ferbie wrote:
Kiwi wrote:
frenzied ferbie wrote:
dBunnyz wrote:im willing to bend on IFs but then u guys should be willing to bend on budget for smaller league teams. If legends are included in both then im out for both ( I played against crespo and all he would do was pass crespo the ball and strength is way through anyone or cross it to him hows this fair against regular gold players). It just makes no sense to put all this work into a tourney only to face a legend or even an IF of a player that played well on a slow week and there was really noone else to give the IF too, or players that really dont deserve them getting them. Gold standard is how I thought we were going into this to be honest. But if were really not keeping a level playing field for everyone then I'll just have to pass, this isnt what I thought it was going to be.  pale 
Crespo didn't even score and you rage quit after 10 minutes, it seems like you're just clutching at straws.

Before this gets into a heated argument, please provide facts - both of you. If one is saying 'all he would do was pass crespo the ball' ... show us a video.

If another is saying 'rage quit after 10 minutes' again ... provide evidence through a pic of the game stats.

If you cannot do this, then it's all hearsay ... go and argue on the EA forum all you want.
I wasn't the guy he played but I was in the party with person he played, the game lasted about 2 minutes IRL, dbunnyz had a little rant and left, I want no argument but, this guy appears to be exaggerating slightly.
Unfortunately it seems that the fact i have a "legend" seems to have caused some problem.  i cant see how as when the transfers system was explained, it used Sheringham as an example.  So people from the start knew the situation.
As for the game last night....  it lasted literally 10 game minutes and i scored 2 pretty scrappy goals,  one from a corner deflected into my guy for a diving header and the 2nd was a cut inside left of the box and the shot deflected in off a defender past the keeper. Both goals i might add were from IF Milito.... Not Crespo,   i think i had one shot with him which led to the corner.

Its not the fact that you have Crespo it is the fact that noone was made aware that you can BID and USE these players.... I said I do not care about the IFs but the Legends are something that is completely idiotic to use in this tourney. I have always said that IFs are ok to use with the exclusion of Legeneds, however, I am merely putting up for debate that if we really want to be realistic than we should only use gold cards, if you werent so caught up in the drama, your feeble mind would have read my posts. My only objection are legends, but if we really want to create what was described this tourney would be as "realistic" then if we do away with legends is it not hypocritical to not do away with IFs as well.

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Post by veets7 Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:25 pm

I think you are upset more at the game than this tourney.  You played in the last tourney on the forums when people were building teams with legends and showing them off.  You should have known.

Aside from that...let's face it, legends are broke.  Every time I have played against a team with legends they were not good players yet their legends kept getting open despite terrible build up play and winning the lion's share of 50/50 balls.  It's annoying.

With all this being said, the reason you come to this tournament is to get a FIFA experience that is enjoyable vs playing seasons.  If people are not going to play with respect of their opponent I don't blame you for wanting to leave the tourney but take a step back and think about it first.  Are you mad at the game or mad at the player?

On a side note: next league should be draft style Smile

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Post by Kiwi Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:31 pm

@Bunny ... let's stop the bickering & calling people's minds 'feeble'. If you are seriously trying to have a mature argument re: legends why the hell are you making these comments for?

At no point was it mentioned that Legends could not be used. If you had a concern all you needed to do was ask.

@Rob ... you've clarified something re: the game, but stop there - go discuss it in the other thread if you need to.

All we are doing now in this thread is discussing the use of legends. Nothing else.

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Post by dBunnyz Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:51 pm

Why would I be upset about this game... Lol I came in with the idea that this was going to be a realistic tourney so imagine if you got all hyped to actually build a team and a good record to only come up against a legend, did we really have to bastardize this tourney to the point of using legends.

You guys are the ones making the tourney not me. As makers its your jobs to clearly state the rules so that everyone is knowledgeable. I shouldnt have to ask a basic question as to if legends are ok to use thats your job as hosts.

If were really making all this fuss about this im out this isnt what i was lead to believe it was. Idc about IFs (TOTY, TOTS), sorry that it only seems logical to get rid of them if we get rid of Legends because they are essentially the samething.

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Post by Kiwi Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:29 pm

Legends, we will decide on those & respond.

But ... there's no way we're stopping people from using ANY form of IF - simple.

Based on that response do I then take it this is your 'formal goodbye' then? Please confirm!




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Post by dBunnyz Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:26 pm

if legends are in this then im out, but to be honest if there has to be any "discussion" about something so simple and easily fixed only shows me that this topic isnt as great as a concern as I thought it would be for such a good concept. So my decision is based upon if you guys either make up or mind today or not to be honest. Yes take away legends ill continue to play, if not then I'm out.

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Post by dBunnyz Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:49 pm

Actually sorry, but the fact that you have to discuss this really shows me that although guys guys have made large quantities of tourneys it doesnt seem like you guys have a solid foot on how to run one smoothly with rules, expectations, that everyone can look at and understand that they are not going to come up against something as stupid as a legend in a "realistic" tourney. For this lack of organization im going to sit out this tourney. Sorry but I was really expecting something else from this then what was happening in reality. For the time I was willing to spend on this, this hiccup that has turned 10x's larger then it has had to because of lack of initiative on your part is concerning.

Ill join the next one

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Post by Kiwi Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:54 pm

You must understand that people had already completed their 'Additionals' and built their teams. Games have been played with those legends too. So, it's not just a simple yes/no as there are ramifications to consider.

Your attitude pisses me off. You have a go at us by saying we have a 'lack of initiative' - where are other tournaments like this that you can join.

On the rules ... crikey - do you want us to recite the football rules to you at the same time?? We don't list every single thing as we expect people to understand & if they don't, they ask a question - quite simple.

I've been trying to discuss this - no resolution yet as I've been away for the past 3 days.

At the end of your whining, you end off by saying I'll join the next one. Wow.

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